A deeper look into the racist nature of Indian society
Fellow Blogbhartian Shivam Vij has this amazing post where he dwells deep into the racist nature of Indian society
All of this, Ojwando admits, is subtler than the insulting, sometimes violent behaviour understood as racism in the West. “But Indians are caught in the middle, they look up to the Whites and look down on the Blacks. They clearly see themselves as being in between.”
This is a must read post. I agree with him completely on this. I have come across many Indians in US who, while looking down on African Americans, complain about racism in the American society. Sheer case of hypocrisy.
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I agreet totally with this article. As a dark skinnned person, I have already met with racism myself at the hands of the so called “fair” and my father had a difficult time to attract the attention of prospective grooms. When I came to Europe, I found admirers much to my surprise and realised for the first time that racism in India is worse than in Europe. On the other hand, even white Europeans who go to India face discrimination of a different kind. They have to put up with irritating subservience on the superficial level and complete coldness at a personal level. Often people give them such special treatment that they give up hope of ever being accepted as a friend. I am sure that africans face a tough time too. I think it is very good that this fact is being discussed openly for the first time. There is no use pointing to history for reasons. We have to just come to terms with our own prejudices.
Yours darkly..
Thanks Revathi for your input. Yes, Shivam did a good job in bringing this issue to the forefront. What started as an naive (and stupid?) attraction towards fair skin has engulfed the society and has turned into a full fledged racism. Many in India will disagree to this viewpoint but it is true and Indians are racist.
Amazing. The comments on the Indian blogosphere give the impression that all the commentators are non-racist and the racists are elsewhere. Yes, come to think of it, I’ve never met an Italian who admits having voted for Berlusconi either. And the pool of Bush voters (sampled by myself) is close to negligible :-)
Anyway, just to stir the pot - if marriage preference on the basis of skin color is wrong, how about height? weight? breast size? tightness of bum? shape of legs? Is a man who looks for “large breasted woman” morally superior if he does not care about skin colour? Who decides which criteria are acceptable and which not?
It is trivialising racism to equate Indian racism to marital preferences. If by racism, one means a belief that certain groups are “scientifically” inferior (and having societal policies mandated on the basis of that position), then we do not exactly have that. This, I must say, is peculiar to the West. There is a fascinating history - some documented in Stephen Jay Gould’s “The Mismeasure of Man” of the type of “scientific experiments” done to justify the position that Africans were “naturally” inferior to, well, presumably Caucasians. The ultimate horror of this type of “scientific validation” were performed by the Nazi scientists to “prove” that Jews were inferior to Aryans.
We do not (fortunately) have this history. We do have a history of preference for “fair skin.” This cannot be callled racism in the sense that I’ve defined it. We also have a relatively short history of looking down on Africans as inferior to us. Where we go this from is not known. It might be a combination of colonialism wherein Indians were categorized as “inbetween” Whites and the Africans and which was internalized by Indians and our traditional preference for fair skin. Presumably, many of us Indians continue to adopt this position - even after the West has (mostly) given up this idiocy. This seems consistent with what happens in other fields: Theories long discarded by the West continue to have a hospitable home in India. I guess also the fact that African countries have not been doing well helps in reinforcing the prejudice.
There is a fascinating discussion by Bhikhu Parekh on how Gandhi himself seemed to have internalized the colonial position that Blacks were “inferior.” Note that in his long struggles in South Africa, he never sided with the Blacks; indeed, he volunteered with the British (on the medical side) in the struggle against the Zulus. He even received some medals for his efforts. Even though the Blacks (I am using this for lack of a better word.) clearly were inspired by Gandhi - the name African National Congress is a clear imitation of the Indian National Congress founded by Gandhi in South Africa - there is no hint that Gandhi ever went over to helping the Zulus, the Xhosa and other non-Indian oppressed in South Africa.
Anyway, at this point, it is immaterial where we go this prejudice from - it is upto us to address it. As for marital preferences - yes, I don’t like it either - but I think the more important issue is addressing the stupid belief that Africans are “inferior” to us. That’s my personal preference.
I have not addressed caste which is related to but not exactly the same as racism. But there is plenty on that in the blogosphere. Just to clarify - I support the Dalits attempt to get caste mentioned along with racism in the UN.
Btw, just to end this on a light note - the last attempt at a sort of “racial theory” in the Indian context that I know of is the colonial “martial races” theory. The idea was that the Indian struggle was non-violent because most groups were genetically incapable of armed struggle. Look up M. J. Akbar’s “India: The Siege Within” for some hilarious quotes from a book called “The Martial Races of India.” (The vestiges of this idea still survive in India, for instance, in the idea that Sikhs are “martial.”)
Good point, Suresh. Racism and casteism are two different conceptual categories. Usage of Racism in lieu of casteism comes from Western media mistaking the two. Desi media, at the least the English one, is unable to correct the same, I ma not sure how media in Indian languages had addressed it especially in light of Shilpa Shetty episode.
And yes, we are all non- racists (non- casteists etc) :-)
Suresh, it is easy for Indians to take off their burden by narrowly defining racism using the scientific definition. Even though, the scientific definition of racism explains the western concept of racism, whatever happens in India in terms of caste, religion, color and language is also racism, when defined in the broadest sense. Pushing it under the carpet by narrowing the definition of racism is not right.
Very thoughtful comments by Suresh and others. Just like Suresh, I also support Dalit’s attempts to get caste mentioned along with racism. But colour consciousness seems to be a different issue and seems to work differently in different countries. Pl.check:
http://www.komotv.com/home/video/5001856.html?video=YHI&t=ao
There have been some recent surveys in US about the effects of complexion on job selection. I do not think that there have been such surveys in India. Somehow, I think that darker complexion brings out features better (my bias) but not too many seem to agree with me.
Krish,
What exactly in my comment gave you the impression that I am all for pushing unsavoury aspects of our society under the carpet? Since I was the one who defined “racism” narrowly in the current debate, presumably I am one of those Indians. Do clarify.
The point is people choose their mates based partly on physical characteristics, amongst which, whether you like it or not is skin colour. (Did you choose your mate without looking at his/her physical attributes at all?) If you are going to call “light skin” preference racism, then - to be consistent - you must apply the same term to any preference based on physical attributes. For that matter, a person expressing a “dark skin” or a “brown skin” preference (as some “Whites” do) is also racist. This, if nothing else, is trivialising racism.
In my previous comment, I guess I was reacting to the fact that by using “racism” in the context of marital preferences, the word is being made meaningless. I am fine with “racism” being defined in the following sense - the belief that some groups are “inherently” or “naturally” inferior. Even in this narrow sense, many Indians (not me, naturally) are clearly racist. But I would not use this word in the context of colour consciousness especially with respect to marital choice which appears to be a different issue.
And no, just to clarify, this does not let Indian society off the hook for its failings. Apologies for the long comment. At least, it will be the final one.
Suresh, my comment about narrow definition of racism was not based on what you said. I have come across many people who had used it to claim that India is not racist. If it gave an impression that I criticized you for the narrow definition, I am sorry. It was more of a comment by me than any response to you.
Having said that I do not agree with your explanation to delineate the treatment based on color. Your case is a valid argument if such a “transaction” happens between two individuals intending to marry or carry on with a relationship. But in a socially conscious society, such collective opinions about the fairness and physical attributes leads to some form of racism. If this “collective social consciousness” was not there, the color of the skin or physical attributes wouldn’t have become such an important factor (even between two individuals) like how it is today in our Indian society. I would argue that the “collective social consciousness” with regards to color and physical attributes, either directly or indirectly enters into individual’s consciousness and leads to widespread discrimination using color and physical attributes.
I think Swarup is making a very important point that people are missing here. Have a look at this short but powerful documentary -
We can argue all day whether it is a matter of personal preference or not but ever asked yourselves why you think fairer people are more beautiful? Nobody answers that question and Vulturo sure as hell cannot answer that.
My point is it is not a case that fairer skinned people are more beautiful. In fact, some of the best looking girls I had come across are dark skinned than otherwise. It is my argument that the notion of “fairer skin being beautiful” is wrong. It is also my argument that people who advocate this notion are subconsciously and unknowingly driven by racial prejudices.
Sures, I suggest you read this paper (especially the literature cited in the beginning of the paper)
http://www.jsri.msu.edu/RandS/research/irr/rr21.pdf
Africans really must be a stupid lot, why would they tolerate racist, small-minded status obsessed Indians inside their country bleeding their economies and livelihood dry.
White is fair , white is hygienic , white is fresh , white is ….etc. , all good and positive attributes are associated with whiteness in life ! Where does it come from ? Even a 1 year old kid picks up a white doll against a black one and the similar definitive preference is given to a white pigeon or a white kitten !!! So is it in the genes of almost every person on the earth ? If so then who do you blame and for what reason ? Remember Michael Jackson got his black skin surgically peeled off even though a bigger percentage of his fans were white-skin ? Where do we go from here ? No doubt the black and browns in this world feel bad about it , however , it would be a herculean task to correct the situation. I wonder how the communist countries tackled this issue !
Prakash,
What is the connection between communism and the subject of this blog?
Hi Revathi
I understand the issues you raised here. Indeed, most Indian men (including myself to be honest) have a preference for fair skin in the opposite sex but to tell you the truth, I’ve grown up now on this and will not allow this “colour” choice to be a factor when I choose partner. I think it’s insane.
This happened when those ads of “Fair and Handsome” hit the market - I felt so disgusted - I myself am olive-skinned but I mean Indian men look much better when they are dark and here, they are trying to push such a stupid concept into the psyche of us.
I recently dated a few European women and they have a preference for darker Indians as there is more sensuality.
That really knocked sense into my brains.
I’ve finally done a self-analysis on this subject and have come to the conclusion, whenever I plan to find a life partner, I won’t let skin colour be a factor in my decision-making at all. I’ll go for the personality of the girl and if she’s dark, I would appreciate her to be proud of who she is (instead of wasting money on Fair and Lovely creams).
And when I have future kids, I would AVOID teaching him that White is better than Black - something that my parents taught me (that’s the ROOT cause of this Indian mentality).
Hopefully, our future generations are going to be very progressive and by the time you and I have grown-up kids, they are developed with more sensible values.
I think all races are beautiful. It’s a shame so many Indian women can’t get on magazine covers, so many striking features indeed. I love dating women of all races, but there are problems for me if I do this in America.
As for me, I am a handsome Indian American guy ,but it’s annoying when ppl stare at me as if I’m some foreign guy from a mysterious underworld. If I hang out with Indians, it only worsens things, that’s what sucks. Currently, I am dating an attractive blonde w/ blue eyes, who I will probably marry. I have noticed when I walk with her, ppl don’t stare at me and don’t ask me where I’m from? Why is this? If I’m alone, ppl want to know where I’m from. Are they really interested in where I’m from or do they just want me to know I’m not American. For me, I have found it easier to live when I hang out with Caucasians. It makes life easier and doesn’t put me in a foreigner status mode, I am just one of the guys–that’s what life should be. My parents want me to marry an attractive white model-type girl because they indirectly believe it will help elevate my life and status. Tiger Woods married a blond. I guess I will too. This world is crazy, but I’ve struggled to find a niche, and white is the way to go for me. But that’s just me, not everybody else.
Firstly, let us get some semantics right. Indians being racist can only be applied to the general perceptions held by Indians against the other races in the world, of which there are only 3 - caucasian, negroid and mongoloid. What we’re talking about here is enthnocentricity and prejudice based on caste, colour, community etc.
There is still a LOT of hypocricy in India. As a kannadiga who’s lived most of my live in the north, I have faced countless instances where I’ve been called a madrasi, where i’ve heard the sentiment expressed that north indians are Aryans and South Indians are Dravidians.
Now, I agree that to look at colour preference, esp when it comes to colur being a criteria for physical attractiveness in a potential partner (just as other physical attributes like height, body struicture, breast size etc), does not amount to prejudicial behaviour. However, the obsession with fair skin in the indian mindset is not just a case of preference for a phyical characteristic. It is intrinsically tied in with the notion that to be fair is superior to having dark skin, and the whole Aryan-Dravidian theory.
I request all of you to do internet searches for proof of the Aryan-Dravidian theory. I assure you that you will not find any credible sources supporitng this. On the other hand, you WILL find numerous sources that discredit this theory. Fact - there has been NO scientific or archeological evidence to support this theory. Pls read my post in another section of this blog for more details on this, as I don’t wish to repeat myself.
http://www.blogbharti.com/madhat/prejudice/south-vs-north/#comment-3094
It is ludicrous to think and believe that there is some sort of an invisible line down the middle of India, whereby to the north lie people of the glorious Aryan heritage and to the south lie their poor country cousins, the darker and inferior dravidians. This Aryan-Dravidian concept is not just a point of differentiation, as one might say that a Maharashtrian is from a different community to say a Gujrati or a Bengali…it is a concept that simultaneously conveys a deep sense of prejudice. Whenever a north indian talks about the people from south being dravidians, it is never conveyed as a compliment or even a general neutral comment (as saying for e.g., that he or she is a harayanvi, or a bihari or a rajasthani)….it is always said with a inextricable belief that to be dravidian means to be darker, puny, uglier, and to be the conquered people (stemming from the belief that around 1500 BC the Aryans came and conquered the indegenous Dravidians and drove them southwards).
Do people not see that not everyone in the north is fair skinned….I have seen sufficient wheatish and dark skinned people in UP, MP, Bihar, rajasthan and even in Punjab etc….not only that, throughout India there is a somewhat consistent pattern to facial and body structure, with some regional varainces of course.
Point is…this Aryan Dravidna crap is indeed a symptom of ethnocentric behaviour. The people from the south are not to be spared either….they also need to wake the fuck up, get some self-confidence and be happy with their skin colours. There is as much obsession in the south with fair skin as anywhere else in India..and this is plain and simple pathetic. It is a severe indictment on the value structure held by south indians that they themselves are living within this hypocricy.
I’m an NRI…and I laugh anytime a fellow indian complains fo prejudice overseas…i laugh cos there is enough of that back home itself.
You know as an african american women the only blatant verbal hostile racism i have experienced has been from an indian (women). racim permeates and I see it in other ways but the only direct brutal attack in my experinece has been from a blatantly vocal indian. it was probably random but what upsets me is why this has been overlooked. to say a preference is “innocent” i.e. i prefer lighter skin is fine if the numbers were not so disproportionate in respect to a population. that flags a diseases commonality in a type of thinking caste system or not. what really kills me is that today there are still backward individuals like the women i ran into who carry this deformed way of thinking and yet of all the years of the caste system, what are the results??? karma has it that the generational offspring are experiencing abuse at call centers from various americans of all backgrounds only to aquire a fraction of income which globally will get you no where. what did the caste system accomplish exactly? are we looking at a flourishing country based on that system? I think not.
I totally agree that Indians are racist in every sphere of their life and the amazing thing is that they think it is pretty normal to behave the way they do. Most people here who throw casual remarks demeaning a dark persons’ looks do so without any hesistation thinking that being fair is the right thing and to hell with the rest of the population who are dark. And the worst part is that the person who is subject to such insults never defends himself or herself thinking that they have committed some sort of a crime by being dark. This pathetic subservient attitude due to years and years of indoctrination by the family and society has led to the burgeoning fairness cream industry. In these sick advertisements they show that a dark coloured girl will always remain a loser in all spheres of life unless she can magically transform her complexion into something fairer and lo and behold now the whole world is at her feet.
This hypocrisy of Indians can especially be seen in the movies( have you ever watched any Rajnikanth movies) where the hero is always dark and the heroine is always fair, yet the heroine prefers the hero over all other guys because she prefers his dark skin lol.Have any of you ever seen a movie where the vice versa has happened, you could search forever but such movies never happen, in this idiotic country of ours. Racism is especially worse for the women as everything else in life ususally is.And no amount of education is going to change the average Indian male as most of these racist people are urban educated men. Racism is not an individual’s preference in our country, it is the plague which has been buried deep into the psyche of every Indian.
I am olive-skinned. I know many of my fellow Sindhi friends who are much much lighter than I am. However, I haven’t been discriminated in any way. I have read a lot about darker-skinned Indian people facing discrimination but I personally have not experienced this. Maybe it is because I don’t live in India and the Indians where I live don’t really care much about skin colour. I live in Asia anyways and there are many Chinese and Malay people with the exact same skin colour as me, tanned by the hot Singapore Sun. Not much of an issue here, although some people do crave for fair skin– only because they think they might look better but not to spark any sort of discrimination based on skin colour.
Priya,
I just wrote about Rajini’s hypocrisy and his craptalk about women in the Sivaji thread. See the kinda popularity Rajini has among our youth. Shallowness of our society is in full display here.
Hey, this was a very interesting board to read. I have encountered racism from Indians and from few Africans as well. It is so sad that people hate themselves so much that they would deny the beauty of the color of their skin. I don’t judge a woman or man’s beauty by the shade of their skin. when I find someone attractive it is because their features are striking. I think that there are so many beautiful people both light, dark, in between, and whatever! I’m not prejudiced in any way. You are who you are. It’s like the biblocal saying…”can a leopard change it’s spots” Think about it!
despite the fact that there are people who veiw me as ugly and those who veiw me as beautiful I don’t really care as long as the man that I marry thinks that I’m gorgeous in his eyes!
Iam an African American female. I think it is just sad that so many nations of people struggle to fit a white standard of beauty.Who made this standard up? What if dark skin was considered desirable and beautiful and fair skin was considered ugly? I hate that not just in America, but the world is so cruel and ignorant. I myself have dark skin and my sister has very fair skin. Our family dosent treat us differntley but unfortunatley society does. I was taught that marriege is about love and if man wants you to change yourself to fit his needs he does not love you. My sister and I were considering taking a trip to India. Now Iam really reconsidering. I dont to to go any where Iam hated because of my skin color. The world has been so cruel to the black race that its sickning. I feel if Indians dont like peole in there own race who are darker, How will they treat a black person? The media already potrays black people as monsters and beast. Its harder women especially.
The fact of the matter is that most of modern indian society has a pre-meditated preference for fairer skin colour. This is partly a hang-over from colonial times when the brits clearly expressed a preference to the fairer communities like the Parsees, and utilised the skin-complexion variances seen across the country, to validate their Aryan-Dravidian theory.
Firstly, it is incorrect to use the term racism when it comes to discussin prejudice based on skin colour alone, as an indicator of physical attractiveness. Racism is prejudice against a group of people, for being that group, for every aspect ad characterictis that the group reporesents. I’d prefer to say that in India there is definitely a bias towards fair skin colour. What is ironic and hypocritical is that probably 70% of the Indian population is wheatish to dark skinned, with maybe less than 10% actually being fair skinned. It is even more hypocritical that in the southern states, where there tend to be more darker skinned people (owing to climatic and geographical factors), this whole bias for fair skin is as ingrained into spciety, as it is elsewhere in India.
I don’t accept that having a preference for fair skin is the same as having a preference for other physical characteristics, like breast size, height, build etc. Society does have pre-defined perceptions of what constitutes attractiveness, but skin tone does not factor in that general global perception - it is things like facial symmetry, eye definition, shapliness of the body, hair, etc. Its has been proved that these phyical factors that affect the perception of attractiveness in others (again, this differs slightly from society to society) - they tend to be linked with biological, horomonal and physiological reactions witin the body and brain. E.g., a woman with an hourglass figure triggers off hormones within most males cos the hourglass figure represents an optimal bust to hip to waist ratio, from the point of view of the fertility of the woman. Simialarly, facial symmetry provides an asthetic appeal, the inverted V athletic body shame in men is appealing to women cos of that represents virility within men.
Anyway, point is - skin complexion preference is more a social thing, driven more by societies acceptance, social values and what they attach to the concept of having fair or dark skin.
Skin colour is somethign that one is born with and to have a pre-meditated prejudice against darker skin is
I grew up in India, went to school in America and met my wife here who is a white america. Personally, I’ve dated people from other races; black, etc. I am sickened by the hypocrisy in Indian society. I despise it when people in India treat my wife specially just because she is white. Indians say that they are accepting as a peoples but in reality, fairer skin matters a lot in marriages and society in India. A dark woman there has a hard time finding a husband and often has to settle for the left overs. I have also found Indians in America to be hypocrites since they complain about racism but are even more derogatory and racist towards blacks or darker races here. Being a christian, I believe that every race is God’s gift to this earth and add’s to its beauty.
Thanks for the interesting comments. I am African-American and the worse racism I experienced was from an Indian boss.
Some very interesting cultural comments.
Jennifer. I could understand what you must have undergone. One of my biggest gripe about Indians is their racist attitude towards african americans while cribbing about racism among whites. Plain third rated hypocrisy by many Indians. I feel ashamed of their behaviour.
I find all this depressing reading. It does sometimes seem that there is a universal innate preference for light skin. However I believe it is also at least partly a result of European colonialism, and the fact that Europeans are associated with wealth and a high standard of living, something that everyone aspires to.
I am half Indian and half English, live in the UK and have been perceived as being from anywhere from India to France. I recall two instances involving Japanese people that I find interesting in regard to this. The first was when I was working for a Japanese company. One of the Japanese women asked me where I was from, and when I told her, she started telling me how at one time male Japanese managers liked to have white (preferably blonde) secretaries, but then, being intimidated by them, they found it harder to tell them what to do. As a result (according to her) they now prefer to have non-white secretaries, whom they feel more able to look down upon. She said they would feel more comfortable with me, because I looked similar to the Japanese.
On another occasion, I got talking to a couple of Japanese women who were on holiday in the UK. One of them started telling me how envious she was of me, because I was so beautiful, whereas Japanese women were so ugly. She said my features were so much nicer because I was European.
Obviously my appearance had not changed to any relevant degree between these two incidents, I had the same features and the same hair, eye and skin colour. But somehow to the person who saw me as European I was much more attractive than the Japanese, whereas to the person who saw me as Asian I looked similar to them.
Of course these are only two incidents but they do suggest that simply the idea that someone is European, rather than a natural preference for a certain look, has a lot to do with all of this. Which hopefully means it is not just innate and can change.
The link between caste and skin color was designed by a Englishman called McCaulay. Here’s an excerpt from his speech in 1835,
“I have traveled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief. Such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such caliber, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their self-esteem, their native self-culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation“.-Lord McCauley in his speech of Feb 2, 1835, British Parliament.
‘Intentionally or unintentionally, the caste system became more rigid during the British Raj, when the British started to enumerate castes during the ten year census and codified the system under their rule.’-Wikipedia
These two events explain why Indians look down upon dark skin. They were taught by the British education system to look down upon everything that is not foreign and not English.
Hah hah. Revathi’s post made me laugh. Why should any tall, handsome North Indian like me go for pig-ass ugly dark-skinned women? European males are mostly faggots - some of the eligible White men in Europe - you may try your luck with them. They don’t really admire you - they’re looking for some “dark exotic meat”. I’m not racist but I only look out for light-skinned women. All my past girlfriends have been either light-skinned Indians or even White European as is my current girlfriend. Go and suck it up, you dark bitches. Noone wants you. I wouldn’t touch any of you with a 10 foot pole. hah hah I’m a mean bastard. And stop applying FAIR and LOVELy, it makes you look uglier.
@ Sahil
So much of hatred ….Looks like you have been rejected by “dark exotic meat” (s)!!!
not all of us are sterotypes to say that all indian like white and all indians hate black. i’m an indian and i for one never have given importance to colour. i’m considered fair in indian complexion and ofcourse i am not happy or sad about it, it is just the colour i am and my husband whom i loved and married is darker and i never even felt any special difference because he is dark, whether he is dark or fair or whatever i loved him for his good nature and i am happy to be with him and my children are dark and they have gone through some racial comments from chinese among whom we live but again i don’t know if i should say all chinese are racist, i told my children look at the world and it is full of colours and it may not be beautiful if it was just all white or all black, we are all a part of universe and we should not be too worried and be sad by the comments of some who doesn’t understand nature.
Racism is widely prevalent in many forms in India. One of those forms is the Caste system. It is a measure of ignorance to mistake racism as simply a preference or dislike of skin colour.
India is indeed the most racist and sexist country on the planet. It is also officially the poorest and in the top five corrupt countries on the planet.
Every middle class Indian should be ashamed of their role in this.